Well done Stoneywood school on achieving their goal of status-quo. Now Bucksburn and Newhills…
“We propose to go to consultation on a new school for Bucksburn and Newhills, a suggestion that has fairly widespread support within the local community. Neither of these two schools are fit for purpose and a new school will complement the new Bucksburn Academy giving the area two new schools fit for the 21st century.”
The words of Councillor Kirsty West.
Is this true?
My goodness. We parents at Bucksburn School would have to develop a backbone before we could even be called apathetic. As a general point, this great site appears largely unused. (We’re all too busy on Ebay and online dating, perhaps ?)More specifically, are we really content that schools are to close, kids may be taught way outside their local area and none of us really seems to trust the word of our local politicians on the subject of school closure/amalgamation ? Bless Kirsty West, and her vast experience of parenting and teaching that only someone in her early twenties could possess. Let’s have her in Boxy School Gym, explaining to my kids why no-one knows where they might be finishing their vital primary school years.
Hehe, very well said. I am none too slow at calling down the inaction of the bucksburn parent in my own blog Angela. As a result of this the parent council are now taking the viewpoint of making decisions and if anyone has something to say against them then let them.
Otherwise we are finding ourselves frustratingly ineffectual at, well, anything. We are supposed to represent the views of the parents of Bucksburn Primary. Trouble is, nobody seems able to get those views FROM the parents of Bucksburn Primary!!
I think these councillors find themselves in a difficult position in respect of their inexperience. I sympathise with that. Am I prepared to allow my childrens’ upbringing to suffer as a result, hell no!
Thanks for your comments (according to the stats for the site we had traffic from someone looking for “Angela Joss” in google – you must have a stalker!)
With regards to the use of the site. Please feel free to publicise it among the parents. I think this could be an excellent resource, especially the parent forum side ‘could’ be fantastic for inter-parent communications. The great thing here is that these comments and the forum posts are online 24hours a day so anyone can access this at any time. I’d be happy with some parental ‘venting’ on the forum boards to be honest! It’d at least show some sort of interest if nothing else.
This could be a great site and I’ll continue posting to it anyhow even if it’s only yourself and Frances who read it!
Feel free to register and I’ll set your user level to allow you to post your own articles. I really am going for a full parental integrated site with minimal moderation. I’ll remove spam, that’s about all. I believe the internet is exactly the place where opinions should be allowed and this site should echo this, even if those opinions differ from mine or the parent council’s.
Ah, Billy, you’ve outed me – I was googling myself last night and discovered this site, which I’m really impressed with. I was actually trying to see if entries I have on another site, MATCH (Mothers Apart From Their Children), could be traced back to me. I would encourage everyone to check out the MATCH website. It has obviously influenced my thinking with regards Non Residential Parents.
I’m interested to learn that you’ve run up against the perennial problem of apathy in your sterling efforts to engage the interest of parents at Boxy School. I must confess that I was hurt and somewhat angered to read a “tagline” on the bottom of a set of Parent Council minutes from several months ago which read something like “We are NOT the old School Board, please come and see” as if it was becasue we WERE the old School Board that we had failed in our endeavours to include everyone. It gives me no pleasure to see that you and your colleagues are encountering exactly the same problems as myself and fellow Board members before you. Answers ? I dunno. But I do feel that creches and varied times of meetings might help. However, I would have thought that a crisis on the scale of possible school closure might have brought us out protesting in droves by now. Perhaps leadership really does have to come from the Parent Council on this one. Maybe providing specimen letters/emails for parents to send to MSPs, council members, etc. Most of all, please give parents one last chance to rally behind the cause here – a meeting to discuss possible strategies, at the very least. I’m off to try to register on this site, but I’m not very computer literate…
I would have thought so too. I think we are failing as a parent council to get the word across. New thoughts are welcomed to help with this.
The “we are not the old school board” line was not meant to infer any sort of approachability issue with the school board but was simply meant to show that the parent council was not simply a re-branding of the school board but a new venture in which all parents should feel ready and able to contribute. That’s not to say I wasn’t trying to make the parent council seem approachable, this was absolutely the case, I didn’t mean it to sound as if the old school board were unapproachable and apologise for that inference.
It didn’t work anyhow so it’s all pretty moot! lol
I appreciate there is a lot of apathy out there with some parents but on the other hand there is a lack of information getting out to parents. I only became aware of this website as my son took home the flyer for filling in the form for objecting to the school closure. And I see there is a Parent Council meeting tonight – since I only just found out I can’t make it but with some notice I would have liked to attend. More information needs to get out to parents – bombard schoolbags with flyers if that’s what it takes.
Thanks for the comment Lisa. I agree with you that the parent council haven’t been great at getting information out to parents, something which we really need to work on.
The slips home in the schoolbags are really the first announcement of the site that there’s been. Previously we had only limited information on the site and it had a whole ‘under construction’ feel about it.
Glad you’ve found it now though! I’ll try to keep as much information on this site with respect of the goings on at the parent council, as well as with any other things the parents would like to see here, as I can. I really hope it’ll be a huge benefit to the school/parents.
Have you found the parent forum section yet where anyone can make comments/post about anything they like?
Lisa, there is a bit of a combined effort going on just now between the Parents’ Council and the PTA to find out what parents at Bucksburn School think about the proposed amalgamation and then represent all those views to our local councillors, MPs and MSPs, as well as telling Aberdeen City Council. There will be a letter coming out in school bags towards the end of this week, outlining the various ways in which parents and carers can get their views across. I think Billy is also trying to set up an email list of interested parents (which would be useful for a lot more than the amalgamation issues) so that information and opinions could be passed between us all more easily. Maybe it’s taken a “crisis” to get us all working together and really thinking how best to communicate but I do believe that’s what’s happening at the moment.
Angela, Billy
I submitted my form and had a response from our elected “representive”,Councillor MacDonald, who, as you will be aware, has his own views on this.
“I would be looking for any feasibility study which is considered to examine both sites which are currently occupied by Bucksburn and Newhills respectively.” The consultaion document stated Newhills was the prefererd site so what is the situation?
“The difference with the Stoneywood proposals, to which you allude, is that we are talking about a new school building in this context, where with Stoneywood the closure would have seen no replacement building, or amalgamation to a brand new school.” The point I was making was about concerns regarding children from a small school moving to a bigger school. There seems to me to be more concern about the building rather than the education being deliverd within it or the school experience our children are receiving.
How effective will any campaigning by us be when our Councillor has an opposing view? So much for representing views of those that elected him. Who did elect him anyway?
Lisa
I was elected in May 2007 under the STV system along with three other councillors for the area covering Dyce, Bucksburn and Danestone, and parts inbetween.
I received 2620 votes, if that helps answer your final question.
In terms of children going from a small school to a larger school, undoubtedly there are issues which will need to be examined, but there is no reason why these should prove to be a barrier to a good education, indeed there has never been any evidence brought forward from previous amalgamations, or from children stepping up from small primary to large secondary, to suggest that there is a significant detriment.
Indeed some of the highest attaining primary schools in the city also have some of the largest school rolls.
The education children receive does not depend upon the building that they are being educated in, I quite agree. The issue arises in two areas, firstly is whether the accommodation is conducive to the best educational outcomes, due for example to issues arising from general wear and tear which can be disruptive, and also whether the money being spent on maintenance of buildings, heating costs etc. would be reduced in a new build, thus allowing more resources to be diverted to frontline education.
I have received a large number of the emails from the site, I have also received a few in support of a merger, I have taken a view from the very outset, which I based on weighing up the merits of each option.
The consultation document did indeed indicate Newhills as the favoured site, but the final decision on what is done will rest with councillors, if we decide to instruct a feasibility study for both sites, then that is what will happen.
I have received the email regarding the meeting on Monday 24th, and I note that among the options the parent council are now putting forward, one includes an alternative location for a merged school. I intend to come along to the meeting, but I don’t want my presence to detract from genuine discussion if it starts turning into a general discussion about me justifying my position, something which I have attempted to do any time anyone has asked me, even to the point of coming onto websites and posting in comment sections to address criticisms or answer questions.
Does this mean that we can expect an equivalent amount of money per pupil or will any money not spent on maintenance be swallowed to help the council balance the books?
Billy
To answer your question, technically spend per pupil is going up because the school population is dropping but the education budget is increasing.
What happens currently is all education costs are factored into the spend per pupil, so by definition if you reduce costs in some areas, the proportion of spend per pupil that is frontline education will increase.
Mark
Excellent.
So will this building get the same funding as the combined current funding of Bucksburn and Newhills schools? It’ll have a similar pupil number.
With less teachers due to bigger classes and less maintenance costs we may be able to get our PSAs back with the difference, meaning no extra money for front line education!
I can’t tell you what the budget and teacher entitlement for a school that isn’t built yet would be.
Equally I can’t prevent you speculating. So feel free to do so
Well I can tell you that the teacher entitlement will be less than the teachers we have now. This was noted by Aberdeen City as an advantage of amalgamation. However less teachers means less teaching hours and that means less money sent to the schools. This means the amount per pupil head goes down.
The council will still expect the standards of education that currently exist in Bucksburn while providing less money to do so, labeled as an efficiency saving from amalgamation! You can’t be promoting this as a good result surely. Come on. The money spent on our children is not a cost, some expense subsidised by the council. It’s an investment in their futures, in turn the future of our society as a whole.
The cutting of PSAs is due to begin NOW, so even before this building takes in both schools we are losing out.
We will be in the situation, as warned, where we’ve lost our school, lost our PSAs, lost our teachers, lost our spirit, lost our community centre, lost our green space, lost our ethos and lost our standards of education as a result (well we would were it not for the high standard of teaching staff we already have and hopefully retain through this unfair situation) Hey, but the linoleum won’t be faded.
The whole amalgamation is absurd and until the council realises their duty of value over cost this won’t change. We need you on our side Mark. If the rest of Aberdeen City Council want to vote against Bucksburn’s views that’s their prerogatives but we should be able to rely on our own councillors to help us as a community, otherwise, why take the job?
I am sure the people leaving nice messages for me will happily answer your last question.
I have made it clear why I took the decision I took, and I also took the time to explain it at the meeting.
I understand your reasons it’s just that they are not applicable to a Bucksburn Councillor’s vote, they’re only applicable to your personal point of view. These are, in this case, mutually exclusive.
Does anyone else think that one of our elected representatives, ie Mr McDonald, leaving a glib reply, accompanied by a SMILEY face, two days after we hear that our school is going to be closed, is totally inappropriate ? Yup, he got in with 2620 votes. I lost that election with something over 100 votes. (First time I ever stood and as an independent.) Not a huge deal of difference when you consider I knew nothing about the process, did not, like him, have the backing of a major political party, and did not make use of any of the available funds for self-promotion. I’ll know better next time – and so should you. I’ll be the candidate running under the slogan “I’m NOT Mark McDonald and I did NOT vote to close your primary school”. To let you understand, Mark used his position in Council Chambers last Wednesday to ask personal questions about Billy when he was not in a position to reply. I totally agree with Billy’s view that Mark (and our other councillors, apart from Barney Crockett who argued vehemently for us), should have been representing OUR views, not their own. Sarah and I spoke our hearts out for Bucksburn School, and the people here. Bear that in mind when the next elections come around because I’m going to stand again against these party political jobsworths. And I’ll provide a torch for someone who was so far up Kevin Stewart and Kate Dean’s secret places that they’d need a light to see out. Bucksburn is NOT a failing school. Bucksburn does NOT have a falling role. Our staff are great, our children are keen. What on earth does it take to keep something going which, most definitely, isn’t broken ? And, I’m so angry that a school which educated three generations of my family is to close for political expediency. DO NOT FORGET WHEN IT COMES TO LOCAL COUNCIL ELECTIONS. That said, I’ll be joing with Bucksburn PC to work with Newhills PC to get the best for ALL our children, whatever happens to us. But, what happened last week was a travesty of local democracy.
To be fair, inappropriate or not I DO encourage free speech on this site. I also encourage anyone to put forward their points of view, after all it’s only when the parent council hears the views they can act on them.
In this respect I totally encourage Mark to post both his personal views AND his political stance on any subject. An encouragement open to all.
In respect of that and with regards to my personal blog, which incidentally was taken offline on 17th December 2008 iirc, my letter on Wednesday was sent in my capacity as secretary at Bucksburn PC. It was therefore inappropriate to ask about my personal views. They asked Nikki about going to Newhills even though she’s zoned for Bucksburn which also was a personal question with nothing to do with who she was representing(Newhills PC).
It’s a cheap form of politics that Mark will need to clean up if he aspires to be more than an ACC Councillor.
I do not and will not dismiss Mark’s viewpoints on these issues. I will continue to allow them to be published as I’m very much against censorship. I will allow anyone to post any personal view on here. He’s entitled to hold any viewpoint he so pleases. What he’s not allowed to do, at least ethically, is let that personal viewpoint get in the way of his job and it’s with this that my problem lies.
If he’s stating a personal viewpoint that’s fine. If he’s stating a personal viewpoint while acting in his position as local councillor, that’s not. He’s more than welcome to have views and air them, but the capacity in which those are aired must be distinguishable.
Free speech is one of the fundamental principles of democracy.
Having said that, what one has the other must have and Angela I totally agree with you. He has the right to say it, you have the right to be offended by it and act accordingly.
Since we are stating personal views now too, I have always voted SNP since I was able to vote. I’ve never missed an election, local, regional, Scottish or UK and I must admit I did vote for the party in the election for councillors as I was fairly new in the area and hadn’t gotten to know the who’s who yet, so Mark got my vote. Ang your margin has gone to 98 with the fiasco that was the democratic system meltdown in Aberdeen.
I had no idea how Mark had voted, I just laid an implication to which he responded in the positive. *shakes head*
It’s the spin that the council feeds each other that gets me. I had to leave the gallery before the councillors could get into the debate as my kid was getting restless but I bet the phrases “state-of-the-art school fit for 21st century teaching” and “Jewel in the Aberdeen educational crown” (or something very similar)were uttered by some of the very people we voted in to represent us. We’re facing an uphill battle from the start, before we even think about the walk to Newhills!
Over before it’s begun? I have £50 here(ok not really but I’m not worried!) says that despite our fight the Newhills site gets chosen, anyone want to take that bet or does everyone else think it’s a paper exercise?
Billy
PS Ang if you were logged in you’d get this grey box round your comments too!
I take your point about freedom of speech. It’s one of the principles I hold most dear. It was Mr McDonald’s smiley face icon which tipped me out of my post-Valentine-husband-made-steak-dinner happiness and prompted me to post.
I’m also still smarting at the way we were treated at the Council meeting. And Billy, you missed the last part of the “debate” where all five parents were quietly appalled at the almost schoolyard form of arguements between councillors, well rehearsed, entirely party political, obviously just going through the motions. As I whispered to one of the Newhills’ mums, “Can you believe THIS is what’s deciding our children’s fate”? The whole local council thing stinks. It should be non-political. It should be people who live in an area representing that area and accountable to their fellow residents. They should be independent of any party political allegiance. It should not be people with very little life experience making their way up the career politician’s ladder, with an eye on the “bigger prize” of Holyrood, Westminster, their own tv show, whatever. This last comment is a general one and not aimed at any one in particular. We, as a nation, have allowed our every day lives to be controlled by a motley crew, in most – not all – cases, who struggle within an out-dated system. What a farce that little ceremony at the beginning of the Council meeting was, four men shuffled in to swear allegiance to something or other and hand over a white purse to ANOTHER man in a big red coat. Hey, this is my children’s education we’re fighting for here – not the continuation of an archaic, male orientated costume drama.
I stood for local council because I believe in the rights of EVERY individual and I think I may do so again in two years time, in spite of being told by a council employee that it’s almost impossible to get elected as an independent unless there’s been an “issue” in your ward that has people up-in-arms. Well, there has now. Why don’t some more of us stand as independents ? Start the Revolution from Boxy ? We couldn’t do any worse than the present incumbents. And without petty politics we might do rather better.
I will not take your bet, Billy, having lost all faith in local democracy but I will continue to fight for the best outcome for ALL the children involved.
PS I’ve lost my log in details…
PPS That’s my last rant of a political nature. This is a site for Bucksburn Parent Council but I cannot get over the loss and hurt I feel at us all working so hard and so long for something that was never in our power to change anyway.
LOL, I’ll see if there’s a way to force email you your details(I can’t access them as they’re encrypted for your security)
I think there’s a case for a “Party of Bucksburn” at the election. I’m not averse to these political rants on here either btw, not that I’m the “site police”. It is after all the politics of this area that’s closing 2 schools.
The whole point of having commenting enabled is to allow people to vent, express etc but I understand trying to keep it informative and not political.
The “smiley face” icon was simply part of internet conversational etiquette and was aimed at being part of what I saw as a civilised discussion between Billy and myself.
I sincerely apologise if it is seen as me somehow “revelling” in the aftermath of the decision to close the schools. That was not my intention.
I think the fact I make myself accessible to my electorate, up to the point of posting on messageboards, sets me apart from many councillors, but if it is going to lead to the response it has done here, perhaps I would be better taking a step back.
Either way, some people will reflect on the work I have done since the election including securing extra CCTV for Bucksburn, and putting funding toward the restoration of the Newhills Garden, post-vandalism, and will see that I have had no axe to grind with either school, I did not introduce party politics into my speech at the Council, contrary to what is being suggested above.
I spoke about aspiration, and I cannot understand why some folk are saying they would be happy to have their kids educated in a B-Grade building, which would last only another ten years. I want all children in Aberdeen educated in the best possible environment, and that in the case of Bucksburn meant the new school.
People talk about Bucksburn being a victim of cuts, but this will be a multi-million pound investment into the area.
Finally, in terms of aspiration, I resent the implication that I am simply using this position as a stepping stone to bigger things, I stood in 2007 as someone who had grown up in the area which I now represent, I have set myself no career path in politics, and would not seek to insult my constituents by implying that I am only in this to go somewhere else.
Oh, and as one of the 100 or so people who gave Angela a first or second preference vote, I am saddened that she did not get elected alongside me, I am sure when she runs her anti-Mark McDonald campaign in 2012 we will have an interesting time on the stump.
I shall leave this now, because as Angela says, this is the website for the Parent Council, and I am sure if the Parent Council decides at some stage that they wish to contact me, they will know where to find me.
Mark
Yeah I agree, I’m unsure to whether cllrs Penney and Clark actually exist at all! Don’t stop posting on the boards, it’s a redeeming feature! It’s good that discussion can occur in the open like this and you’re not going to make me believe that as a public figure AND a politician you’re going to be too affected by it! hehe.
Back on track in respect of the building the council are going to put up here, it’s not an investment as the cost far outweighs the benefit of decent heating. If you genuinely cannot understand why we would rather have the B listed building then I’m not sure what else we can do! The reasons have been beaten to death!
We all want the kids to have the best education and it was precisely this that led our fight to keep the schools we have.
The CCTV hasn’t been secured yet, it was said to “see in the new year” iirc but yes, I agree with you’re point that until now I’ve had no reason to doubt you as our representative. This is possibly what made this all the more devastating that I just didn’t see it coming! I’ve not suggested you brought party politics into the speech either, I had to duck out before I heard the full debate. I was making general points about the SNP party as it stands in Aberdeen. This isn’t necessarily a new thing or a thing peculiar to one party as I’ve long been dismissive of the party political system. It’s about time that issue came before party, in the words of Margaret Thatcher, I don’t think that’ll ever happen in my lifetime.
I also await the Angela’s campaign with interest!
I think it was probably me who started the insinuation of your future career path, I don’t see how campaigning in Govan helps us in Bucksburn ;-P
I am sure the parent council DOES know where you are and can contact you and vice-versa. Just because there was a disagreement on this issue(ok it’s a biggie!) doesn’t mean that you are now dis-missed from our community! lol You’re still our representative on issues and I for one look forward to (re-)building the working relationship.
Billy
Thanks Billy
I am glad you are still willing to work with me on issues, and let there be no doubt I am still willing to work with you, and any other parent from Bucksburn or Newhills who requests my assistance.
P.S – it was Glasgow East, not Govan.
P.P.S – it was during the summer recess
P.P.P.S – I dealt with a load of casework via the Blackberry so was still accessible to all!
Oh, also (or should that be P.P.P.P.S?!?) my apologies over the CCTV, I clearly misinterpreted the email I received from officials way back when.
I will email the community safety manager again and will copy you in Billy.
Just logged on with my funky new password – grey box should follow ! Whilst I continue to take Billy’s point about freedom of speech and my own about having no more to say on this subject of a political nature, it strikes me there’s a couple of points need correcting here. Firstly, Mr McDonald, your smiley face icon was NOT, as you claim, part “of what (you) saw as a civilized discussion between Billy and (your)self”. It actually forms part of the various debates and information on Bucksburn Parent Council Website, accessible to all and read by many parents – who may choose not to post – in these distressing and trying times for our school. I think you should have taken a little more care how you embellished your words 48 hours after our whole school, staff, children and parents received a very sore blow. Cartoony smiles on our website ain’t making this Mum smile.
Secondly, I was careful to make my comments on local democracy indicative of a broad, personal view, garnered from 24 years as a voting citizen. If you took that to be aimed at you, then perhaps (and obviously) you have much more insight into your long-term political aspirations than I have.
Thirdly, I will not be running an anti-Mark campaign. I WILL be reminding local voters of the kind of cuts that you – and some of your fellow ward councillors – voted through, and the consequences that has had for our area.
Fourthly, I’d like your help with avoiding the swingeing cuts to PSA hours which will have an impact on ALL children across Aberdeen City.
I’ve moved Mark’s responses to Angela’s PSA question to this thread which is the new post relating to these PSA cuts. I feel this is the direction in which this thread is moving and is therefore better placed in that post.
Thanks